On Tuesday, press secretary Karoline Leavitt gave her first media briefing in the White House. Leavitt unleashed a sleazy, gratuitous attack on Joe Biden’s age, dodged responsibility for the rise in egg prices on Trump’s watch, and even defended Trump’s executive order ending birthright citizenship. The attack on Biden is worth dwelling on: It shows that a certain type of deranged, abusive MAGA trolling ethic is now fully installed inside the White House. We talked to Salon writer Amanda Marcotte, a skillful interpreter of MAGA politics, about what really lies behind Leavitt’s performance—and what it signals about the ugliness to come. Listen to this episode here.